Trending: Best Ammo in Stock, Best AR-15, & Best 9mm PistolsJUMP TO SECTIONThe 1911 is one of the most legendary firearms in existence. It'In most of my 1911s, the Checkmates with hybrid or GI lips and a GI follower are the most reliable. The best WCs I have have hybrid lips and GI followers. For some reason, the cheap MecGars that came with my now 10year old Para GIExpert(after a ton of reliability work) still work fine even though you could stand back and toss the rounds into them.Best Budget-Friendly .380 ACP Pistols 5. Bersa Thunder & Firestorm .380. ... is the Springfield Armory 911 Enhanced Micro Pistol. Based on the 1911, this all metal pistol is an easy shooter, accurate, and fun to shoot. Find this one on the used market, get 'intimate' with it for a moment or two, and I believe you'll really like it!Double-stack 1911s and 2011 Pistols Tested. Editor’s Choice (All-Around): Atlas Gunworks Athena. Editor’s Choice (Personal Protection): Nighthawk Custom TRS Commander. Best for Competition (tie): Staccato XL. Best for Competition (tie): Masterpiece Arms DS9 Hybrid.InRange is *entirely* viewer supported:https://www.patreon.com/inrangetvhttps://utreon.com/c/inrangetvWe review a very true to form 1911A1 Government model 4...If you are on a budget, there are plenty of quality red dot sights available at around $200. But if you want a professional red dot sight, be ready to pay more than $400 for a single product. Read: Best Pistol Reflex Sights. Why Choose a Red Dot Sight. A red dot sight is one of the best accessories you can get for your 1911 pistol.The Sig P220, Sig P210, numerous 1911s, Springfield XD-E, and the Sig P238/938 are still in current production and readily available. I am not sure exactly what you are looking for, but those might be a decent place to start. October 31, 2023 5:16 am Reply ... including our best budget pistols. While I do think the TH9 is a great value, I would ...Looking for the the best 1911 Pistols of 2024? Look no further!Check out our top 8 1911 Pistols 2024: 10. Wilson Combat X9L 9. Nighthawk Bull Commander 8....As American as apple pie, the 1911 is a classic and outstanding firearm. Find out the best affordable 1911 that fits your budget.The Best 1911 for any Budget. The 1911 is made by several different manufacturers at many different price points. This list ranges from $500 all the way up to $4000 with the Nighthawk Custom 1911.Most 1911s are chambered in 45 ACP but we even included a 9mm 1911 and a 38 Super 1911. This list should will give you a 1911 option for every budget, from $500 to $4000, along with some factors that ...Capacity: 8+1. Click for Lowest Price! The full size Taurus PT1911 is slightly more than $500, but these budget 1911s come with some premium features that some folks think justify the extra $50. Essentially the Taurus PT1911 is a clone of the US Military 1911 with a 5 inch barrel and was announced in 2005.How good is the cheapest 1911? We put it through a full 1000 round test in adverse conditions, with all types of ammo, to give you the most thorough review p...Get the best gun and ammo DEALS that are out there right now! Enter your email below and we will send them straight to your inbox! Gun Made may receive a small commission from any sales that link to products or services on this site. This does not affect the price you pay and your purchases through our links help support our work in continuing ...If the best 1911, or at least the most clever choice, would exist, there would be just two models/brands. People buying cheap 1911s may outshoot richer braggers; owners of possibly unfortunate hi-end items may hesitate admitting they wasted money; or too much tight/refined 1911s may be so choosy about ammo as to become unreliable.Staccato P - the best from the 2011 world. This 1911, or better said, 2011 pistol boasts a double-stack magazine, and with a 17+1 rounds capacity it's one of the most potent 1911 pistols. Sporting a 4.4-inch barrel, it's precision and power in a sleek package, offering that added assurance with extra rounds at your fingertips.dsk and Evolution Armory hit it on the head. Regarding 70 Series Colts (manufactured 1970-1983) I have always read that the "G" models were the best, quality-wise. (70G models made 1970-1976 and G70 models made 1976-1980). The ones to avoid were supposedly the "B" Models (B70 made 1979-1981 and 70B made 1981-1983).Posted by u/Taymyr - 3 votes and 7 comments11 of the Best 1911 Pistols for 2022. The 1911 design originated from a need for a self-loading, semi-automatic pistol to replace the service revolvers of the time. Likewise, the Army was interested in replacing the .38 with the higher power .45 ACP. Although many different firearm manufacturers around the world fought for the contract, it …Most Reliable 1911 Handguns That Cost Less Than $1,000. 1. Best Overall: Springfield 1911 A1 Range Officer. The Springfield 1911 A1 Range Officer takes the spot as our top choice of modern 1911 handguns. The gun offers high-grade, premium-quality features that no other model below the thousand-dollar price can beat.Springfield's New Ronin 1911: Bombproof Quality at a Great Price (Full Review) Springfield Adding New Ronin 1911s in 9mm and .45 ACP; Best Budget 1911: Springfield's Ronin Operator - SHOT Show 2020; Springfield's Ronin Operator 4.25 is a Lightweight Mid-Size 1911 for Everyday CarryThe best"cheap" 1911 Handguns: The Semi-automatic ForumBest Metal-Framed Semi-Auto Handguns. These metal-framed pistols stand out from the rest of the pack for one reason or another. Use them as you please, whether for carry, home defense, competition, and just plain old fun at the range. 1. Beretta 92FS and 92X Performance.ADMIN MOD. Best 1911 for ~$1500 budget. So I've done a fair bit of scouting around to try and find a 1911 style for EDC within my price point and am open to recommendations (before anyone gets crazy I already have a 3" Python and am used to "heavy" guns/recoil). Preferences of 9mm (open to .45 ACP) Single stack probably as double stacks feel ...Mar 29, 2022 · The design for the 1911 pistol is well over a century old, but it continues to evolve. Here are five of the best variants of the 1911 available to civilians today. 5 Best 1911 Pistols Available ...They’re evolving beyond just being the best budget 1911s these days. There are genuinely innovative and interesting pistols on pure merit, but this is the basic foundation. Now it isn’t the prettiest Government model 1911 on this list. Not even close. But these Rock Island semi-auto pistols have a reputation for reliability and durability.Then, we wore and rated each 1911 holster on their: Comfort, Safety, Retention, Ease of concealment, Ease of draw, Build quality & durability, Customization & adjustability, Warranty, Price & value for money. Finally, we narrowed the list down to 6 winners for each carry type. Note: We did most of our testing with the classical 5″ 1911 ...Check out our Overall Best 1911s and also Best Budget 1911s. Related topics: 1911 , Buyer's Guide , Gun Reviews , Pistol , Review ; shop products mentioned. Brownells AR-15 .458 SOCOM Barrel $320. Deals of the Day: Hand-Picked Ammo & Firearm Discounts. Written By. Matthew Collins.We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us.The Remington 1911 R1 had a single jam occur with full metal jacket ammunition during a test shoot with GunDigest. Another problem encountered with the R1 includes an 80-style inte...The Ruger SR1911 is my pick for one of the best values in firearms these days. Ruger has absolutely nailed the budget market these days, and this 1911 is a good example of that. The SR1911 is entirely made in America and is finished with an attention to detail that you don’t get on many 1911s cheaper than this.KWA M1911 MK II Metal Tactical PTP (For Pro’s) Velocity: 350 FPS. Power Source: Green Gas. VIEW PRICE →. 2. Elite Force 1911 TAC Blowback CO2. Velocity: 350 FPS. Power Source: Co2. VIEW PRICE →.Best Shoulder Holsters (Updated List) 1. Galco Jackass Rig Shoulder. The Galco Jackass shoulder rig features a horizontal holster that can easily be adjusted to a more diagonal position if you like. The holster attaches to the harness using swivel connectors, so it will maintain its desired position throughout the day.Dan Wesson Razorback RZ-10. We’re finishing up with a high-end 10mm 1911 option, the Dan Wesson Razorback RZ-10. This competition-grade pistol certainly doesn’t come cheap, but you get a lot for your money. The fixed sights are built for defense, but you’ll probably want an upgraded optic for competition if permitted.This entry level 1911 was our favorite cheap 1911 for a long time, but the price has crept up from its original $500 starting point. Still, this is a lot of gun for the money. It is the single action M1911 standard issue service pistol, more or less, with modern mass manufacturing and material science making it infinitely more reliable.One of the best deals is their 1911 Classic, offered in .45 and .38 Super with a Series 70 firing system, national match barrel, staked on front sights, and spurred hammer for about $800. While not a custom 1911 builder per se, Colt's the oldest name in the 1911 game and deserves a look. 4. Best 10mm 1911: Dan Wesson.Best performing magazines for 1911. When I picked up my Super Carry Custom HD, knowing that it came with only one magazine, I also picked up a couple of extra Kim Pro Tac Mags. Later in the day, I picked up a Wilson Combat mag. My experience at the range has convinced me that the Wilson Combat mags are superior.A Bit of History. The 1911 is loved for its accuracy and reliability, with the biggest gripe being capacity. Hence the journey to make a version that took double-stack magazines that lead to ...Many once-considered custom 1911 features are now standard, and that pretty much tells the story of the new Turkish-made, 5-inch Duty and 4.25-inch Carry 1911s in 9mm Luger from Tisas.Double-stack 1911s and 2011 Pistols Tested. Editor's Choice (All-Around): Atlas Gunworks Athena. Editor's Choice (Personal Protection): Nighthawk Custom TRS Commander. Best for Competition (tie): Staccato XL. Best for Competition (tie): Masterpiece Arms DS9 Hybrid.A 1911 9mm is the Baby Town Frolics. If you asked me what the best 9mm 1911 on the market is right now, I’d tell you it’s the Ruger Custom Shop SR1911 Competition pistol. Ruger Competition. Credit: Ruger.com. It was designed in conjunction with Ruger’s and competitive shooter Doug Koenig. It’s a full-size 5-inch barrel model, with all ...Springfield XD (M) Glock 21. Ruger SR1911. Sig Sauer P220. Wilson Combat Classic. Sig Sauer 1911 Tacops. STI Tactical. FN FNX 45. Fat and slow and exceedingly potent, the .45 ACP has captured the heart and mind of the American shooter for more than a century.depending on the cheap part one of the better plans for a "build" was the Foster receiver and a Sarco build kit. you''ll build a cheap but working 1911 that way. going for the best the idea of starting with a Springfield Mil-Spec gun and making improvements seem like the best route. you'll modify a best 1911 that way and maybe make it better.The Tomasie Custom is not as tweaked or polished as some of the similar 1911s you’ll see on the competition circuit, but those are full-house custom guns from small shops and cost twice what the Tomasie does—if not more. In fact, the R1 Tomasie’s $1,650 price tag is downright cheap compared to most double-stack competition 1911s.Re: What makes a 1911 suitable for Bullseye Shooting. by dronning 9/25/2017, 9:10 pm. I started with a new Les Baer wad gun frame mount ($1,900) plus optic ($250). I shot the crisp trigger for a while but then upgraded to a KC roll trigger drop in kit ($200). Total $2,350 it would be over $2,600 today.Best Shoulder Holsters (Updated List) 1. Galco Jackass Rig Shoulder. The Galco Jackass shoulder rig features a horizontal holster that can easily be adjusted to a more diagonal position if you like. The holster attaches to the harness using swivel connectors, so it will maintain its desired position throughout the day.Most Reliable 1911 Handguns That Cost Less Than $1,000. 1. Best Overall: Springfield 1911 A1 Range Officer. The Springfield 1911 A1 Range Officer takes the spot as our top choice of modern 1911 handguns. The gun offers high-grade, premium-quality features that no other model below the thousand-dollar price can beat.They're usually a few hundred more dollars than a Rock Island 1911. I have a Rock Island 1911a1 and I kind of wish that I would have saved more money and got a Springfield 1911. The finish and machining on the Springfields is quite a bit better than the Rock Island 1911's, at least on the ones that I've looked at anyway.Here are our top picks in affordable 1911s. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY RONIN. SHOP NOW. With its forged frame and slide, the entire Ronin series is built on durability and strength. Driving the superior...Always thought a solidly built, dependable 1911 was out of your price range? Here are six options that might be within your reach.They’re evolving beyond just being the best budget 1911s these days. There are genuinely innovative and interesting pistols on pure merit, but this is the basic foundation. Now it isn’t the prettiest Government model 1911 on this list. Not even close. But these Rock Island semi-auto pistols have a reputation for reliability and durability.2 Galco Combat Master Belt Holster for 1911 5-Inch Colt, Kimber, Para, Springfield. Another 1911 Galco Holster on our list is the Galco Combat Master Belt Holster for 1911 that is made from saddle leather. The seams have also been double-stitched to ensure maximum durability. In terms of the fit, it has been hand-molded to keep your …Best Pistol Lights. 1. Streamlight TLR-1. The TLR-1 is my personal favorite and what I recommend to friends. And it is what sits on my home-defense Glock 17. Good size for compact and full-size handguns. Intuitive and ambidextrous toggle levers for both momentary on and stay-on.Aug 15, 2022 · Kimber MFG. 1911 Micro 9 Stainless 9mm Pistol. This first 1911 pistol from Kimber MFG. is a stainless steel model – that’s something you usually only get for firearms over $1000 in price. But here, you can get quality construction on a budget, in part because the pistol is so small and chambered for 9 mm Luger rounds.Jul 30, 2023 · In this Article: Best Budget 1911s: The Three Price TiersBest Budget 1911s: Sears Had It RightBest Budget 1911s: CailbersBest Budget 1911s: DifferencesPersonal Experience With Budget 1911sTypes Of 1911sBest Budget 1911s: The SpecsRock Island Armory 1911ATI 1911Cimarron 1911American Classic IITaylor’s & Co. Full-Size A1 1911Taurus PT1911Ruger ...They're evolving beyond just being the best budget 1911s these days. There are genuinely innovative and interesting pistols on pure merit, but this is the basic foundation. Now it isn't the prettiest Government model 1911 on this list. Not even close. But these Rock Island semi-auto pistols have a reputation for reliability and durability.Kimber 1911s are not cheap pistols. They average around $1500. At that price, and with the problems commonly reported by owners, ... the Best 1911 Triggers, the Best 1911 Holster, or the Best 1911 Shoulder Holster on the market in 2024. Plus, our review of the Taurus PT 1911 will give you a different perspective. Last Words. So there you have ...I'd do a Rock Island 6 days a week and three times again on Sunday before going the Taurus route. Don't know if today's Taurus 1911 have conformed to mil-spec, some older Taurus 1911s had sear pin and hammer pin holes drilled wrong for aftermarket ignition sets. Sets that worked in all other 1911s. dc.Hands down tisas is the best budget 1911. Yeah rock islands are awesome. Tisas. $350-$400 for a brand new 1911 made to as faithfully resemble the original WW2 1911A1 as possible, with a forged frame and slide, wood grips, ~4# trigger and minimal MIM parts.Shadow Systems MR920 and Glock G19. You can opt for a threaded barrel model, which is ready to accommodate a suppressor. This 9mm also sports an array of top-tier features, such as an optic-cut slide, black nitride or bronze TiCN barrel finish, aggressive beavertail, and swappable backstraps. Shadow Systems MR920.The little GSG 1911-22s are a blast to shoot, fit most standard 1911 holsters, and are compatible with a wide variety of 1911 parts like grips. On top of that, the 10-round magazines are affordable and easy to find. This is perfect for a budget 1911 and a perfect choice as a fun .22 LR handgun for plinking.Reviews. 7 Best Affordable 1911s of 2023 (For Your Budget) August 14, 2023. 89. The 1911 is one of the most legendary firearms in existence. It's been around since the year 1911 and found its way into wars and conflicts all across the planet. Rock Island Armory 1911 GI Commander.This gun doesn’t weigh that much more than a Glock 19 for a tailor-made single stack 1911 from one of the best 1911 manufacturers on the planet. For a lot of folks, this is the everyday carry pistol you’ve been waiting for. 5. …Jun 10, 2021 · Cheap 1911 vs. Expensive 1911: Shooter Interface. If you look at the 1911-A1 Tanker imported by SDS Imports you’ll find a very reliable, less-than-$500 handgun. ... The 7 Best Shotgun Brands of ...336 votes, 49 comments. 68K subscribers in the 1911 community. Talk about the 1911 pistol in all of its forms. Coins. 0 coins. Premium Powerups Explore Gaming ... I'm usually a massive 1911 snob but tisas might be the best budget 1911, the one I felt was as buttery as a BulJ. Jim Watson. 25582 posts · Joined 2001. #7 · Jul 10, 2016. So try the $11 job first. I now only have S&A and Brown, used to have one of the clip-on Wilsons back when they were made out of plastic and a long-forgotten Barrett. The S&A Slimline would go well on a carry gun, especially if you rounded off the heel.The good news is that there's a perfect 1911 for you at your preferred budget. Whether you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel to put enough cash together so you can join the club, or you’re looking to spend your tax refund on a high-end 1911, we've got you covered!ROBAR will customize a 1911 provided by the customer or take an order for a customized 1911 and also supply all the parts including the frame, slide and barrel. ROBAR will even use parts from manufacturers specified by the customer. Marty Enloe, head gunsmith at ROBAR, says there are several good base guns on which a custom 1911 can be built.Wilson Combat. Wilson Combat's 8-Round .45 ACP Magazine is engineered from aircraft-grade stainless steel. It's built to match tolerances, a full 50 percent tighter than the specifications for the original 1911 government. It has a 5 / 8 inch pad on the bottom, which is perfectly sized for 1911s with magazine wells.Which other brands produce high-quality 1911 .45 ACP pistols? Some other reputable brands known for producing high-quality 1911 .45 ACP pistols include Springfield Armory, Kimber, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Wilson Combat. 3. Is the Colt Series 70 worth the investment? Yes, the Colt Series 70 is considered a valuable investment due to its ...Depends on what you want used one can be $475.00 to $600.00 for a non-modified .45. A New 1911 could be anywhere between $600ish to $1,000 it all depends on what you want. The first 1911 I ever bought was a 98-year-old Colt 1911 45 hand engraved in the 1920s with an upgraded hammer and trigger. It came with the original parts too.One of the best deals is their 1911 Classic, offered in .45 and .38 Super with a Series 70 firing system, national match barrel, staked on front sights, and spurred hammer for about $800. While not a custom 1911 builder per se, Colt's the oldest name in the 1911 game and deserves a look. 4. Best 10mm 1911: Dan Wesson.With your wedding just around the corner, are you scrambling to find a suit that fits both your budget and your style? Don’t worry — we’ve got you covered. Check out our tips on ho...The Stealth Arms Platypus is a double-stack 1911, like no other. It’s got a great name and a smart fix for the usually expensive double-stack 1911 magazines, which can go for $50 to $70. Compared to that, a Glock 17 mag is only about $25. Stealth Arms decided to make their double-stack 1911 utilize Glock 17 magazines.18 votes, 13 comments. 71K subscribers in the 1911 community. Talk about the 1911 pistol in all of its forms.Kimber MFG. 1911 Micro 9 Stainless 9mm Pistol. This first 1911 pistol from Kimber MFG. is a stainless steel model – that’s something you usually only get for firearms over $1000 in price. But here, you can get quality construction on a budget, in part because the pistol is so small and chambered for 9 mm Luger rounds.4: Girsan Witness 2311. EAA Corp recently made an announcement about the release of their first ever affordable double stack 1911 pistol, the Girsan Witness 2311. Of all the 1911s that will be …Today's 'Rock Island Armory' known for budget 1911's is NOT a company. Well, not really. Not to be confused with the U.S. military's 'Rock Island Arsenal', it is a brandname owned by Twin Pines Inc. of the Philippines, owned by the. Topacio family, who also own the largest combined-dealership of firearms.The Ruger SR1911 is my pick for one of the best values in firearms these days. Ruger has absolutely nailed the budget market these days, and this 1911 is a good example of that. The SR1911 is entirely made in America and is finished with an attention to detail that you don’t get on many 1911s cheaper than this.Since the U.S. Army adopted the iconic Colt pistol in 1911, the .45 ACP platform has been used by military units worldwide. It wasn’t until the 1980s that the U.S. military finally moved on from ...ADMIN MOD. Best 1911 for ~$1500 budget. So I've done a fair bit of scouting around to try and find a 1911 style for EDC within my price point and am open to recommendations (before anyone gets crazy I already have a 3" Python and am used to "heavy" guns/recoil). Preferences of 9mm (open to .45 ACP) Single stack probably as double stacks feel ...The Remington 1911 R1 had a single jam occur with full metal jacket ammunition during a test shoot with GunDigest. Another problem encountered with the R1 includes an 80-style inte...That’s the best first attempt at checkering I’ve ever seen! Looks incredible ! Well done! Reactions: Levian. ... The modern production 1911 - high visibility sights, beavertail grip safety, aluminum trigger, good trigger pull, enhanced slide/ frame fit, accurized barrel/bushing fit. If it’s not a Kimber, it’s a copy.If that was the case, there is 0 reason they would be machining 1911s since the aerospace industry would earn them significantly more revenue if they can machine things that good. Basic economics instead points to either 1 of 2 things going on. They are either: ... Tisas Rider best Budget 1911 under $1000? Need some helpMay 9, 2023 · Best 1911 Holsters. 1. Galco Miami Classic II. The Galco Miami Classic is undeniably the flag bearer for shoulder rigs. It set a standard for comfort, durability, safety, and support. Most importantly, it was the star of Miami Vice, where it gained its namesake. Don Johnson in Miami Vice.If we step down from full-custom, hand-built guns into what some call the "semi-custom" market, starting between $2,000-$3,500, we find brands like Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom, Les Baer, and Ed Brown. For many of us, this would be the max of our potential "top of the line" 1911 budget, and one of these excellent pistols might be a ...A front view of the glass on the non-MRS EPS Carry. Overall, the EPS Carry MRS is packed full of features as expected from Holosun, with the added benefit of increased durability from the enclosed emitter design. This is one of the best optics on the market, hands down. 6. Holosun HS507K X2 - Best Overall Micro Dot.This 1911 is 8.56” long and weighs 2.47 lbs. Rock Island Armory’s G.I. Standard series is an excellent gun for anyone looking for an affordable 1911 with classic features and is one of the best budget 1911s. The Rock Island is one of the best 45 ACP pistols for the price.Advertisement. That safety is right at thumb level, and most 1911s today feature thumb safeties bigger than the original GI design, so your thumb is going to have to go below it or above it. 1911s should always be fired with the thumb of your shooting hand atop the manual safety- the "thumb-high hold". There are two very specific reasons for this.KWA M1911 MK II Metal Tactical PTP (For Pro’s) Velocity: 350 FPS. Power Source: Green Gas. VIEW PRICE →. 2. Elite Force 1911 TAC Blowback CO2. Velocity: 350 FPS. Power Source: Co2. VIEW PRICE →.Kimber 1911s are not cheap pistols. They average around $1500. At that price, and with the problems commonly reported by owners, ... the Best 1911 Triggers, the Best 1911 Holster, or the Best 1911 Shoulder Holster on the market in 2024. Plus, our review of the Taurus PT 1911 will give you a different perspective. Last Words. So there you have ...Handgun Roundup: The Budget 1911s. The 1911-style pistol remains wildly popular more than 100 years after its birth. At last count, roughly 50 manufacturers are producing hundreds of different 1911 models ranging from mil-spec, GI-type versions that recall John Browning’s original design, to uber-refined and customized 1911s that cost ...3 Best bang for your buck 1911s. 1) Kimber; U.S. made factory built "custom" pistols, great guns, good prices. 3) Springfield; Some decent guns, but the entry level models just don't sport the tunning the rest of the line has and they're made in Brazil, so I gave them the no.3 spot. I AM NOT talking about cheapest functional 1911s made in the ...One issue when carrying concealed, though, is the grip, which can print under clothing. To see which pistol best fit our testers' everyday-carry needs, we procured three 1911 Commander models for testing: the recently introduced Taurus 1911 Commander ($459), a Metro Arms MAC 1911 Bobcut ($746), and an American Classic Commander ($568).. In this Article: Best Budget 1911s: The Three PricThat's the best first attempt at checkering I&# Best Budget Handguns 1. CZ P-10C. I don't exactly know what CZ is doing, but prices for the P-10C have been slashed across the board. ... For many people, the 1911 isn't their go-to defensive pistol; they just want a cool, fun, aesthetically pleasing gun. The Tisas feels and looks much better than its $300-400 price tag would suggest. Trending: Best Ammo in Stock, Best AR-15, & Best 9mm Browse our Handguns in 1911s on BudsGunShop.com. Use our advanced product search tools to find exactly what you are looking for! ... Enter your email address to receive our best deals and other store updates. Connect With Us. Buy With Confidence. 4,571,711 Customers Since 2003 2,589 Currently Online The plastic makes it feel cheap. Some of us didn't even ...
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