Bobby Lowell Bell, 80, of Elizabethtown, passed away on Sunday, August 6, 2023 at his home. He was born April 26, 1943 in Upton, Kentucky, to Pearl Helen (Wood) Bell and the late Claudie Bell. He was a 1961 graduate of Sonora High School... View Obituary & Service InformationPlant Trees. Funeral services provided by: Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown. 2098 Leitchfield Road, Elizabethtown, KY 42701. Call: (270) 769-6341.Audrey Sparks Obituary. Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on May 16, 2024. Audrey Louise Sparks, 70, of Elizabethtown, passed away Monday May 13, 2024 at ...Marylon Perkins's passing on Wednesday, November 24, 2021 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown in Elizabethtown, KY.Legacy invites you to offer condolences and share memGary Wilson's passing on Friday, January 28, 2022 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown in Elizabethtown, KY.Legacy invites you to offer condolences and share memories ofWhen a loved one dies, writing their obituary is one last way that you can pay respect to them. An obituary tells the story of their life and all of the things they did — and accom...Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; Locations; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Ermine Booker August 29th 215 North Walnut Ave. Upton. Rita Kay Sell August 26th 2098 Leitchfield Rd.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Upton on May 18, 2024. Robert F. Riggs, age 78, of Upton, passed away Friday May 17, 2024 at his residence in Upton. He was born in Upton ...Fri. Sep 30. Funeral service. Manakee Funeral Home. 29 W Western Ave, Sonora, KY 42776. Authorize the original obituary. Authorize the publication of the original written obituary with the accompanying photo. Allow Karen Fay Priddy to be recognized more easily. Increase the accessibility of loved ones to show you their sympathy.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; Locations; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Catherine Lucas May 29th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Mary Priddy May 28th 215 North Walnut Ave.Find the obituary of Danny H Gray (1951 - 2024) from Stephensburg, KY. Leave your condolences to the family on this memorial page or send flowers to show you care. ... Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown 2098 Leitchfield Rd, Elizabethtown, KY 42701 Mon. Jan 15. Funeral servicePhone. (270) 369-7444. Overview. Manakee Funeral Home, situated in the heart of Sonora, Kentucky, is a mainstay in the community, providing essential services with dignity and compassion. This funeral home specializes in an array of funeral service options, which range from traditional funerals to personalized memorial services, all tailored to ...Read the obituary of Paul Jay Mullins (1969 - 2023) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.Visitation will be Thursday April 4, 2024 4:00 pm to 8:00 pm or Friday, April 5, 2024 9:00 am to 11:00 am at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown. The family has requested pet-friendly plants and flowers, or donations to the American Cancer Society, or the Alzheimer's Association be made in memory of Don.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Timothy Peters May 7th 2098 ...Service, on January 14, 2023 at 9:00 a.m., ending at 11:00 a.m., at Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, 2098 Leitchfield Rd, Elizabethtown, KY. Legacy invites you to offer condolences and share ...Wilella Avery Copelin, age 95, of Sonora, died peacefully at her home, surrounded by her family on Sunday June 19, 2022. She was born Sept. 15, 1926, at Cash, Ky. to Luke Stinson Avery and Jennie Edith Conner Avery. She attended Roaring Springs... View Obituary & Service InformationManakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Elzie Thomas Duncan May 18th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Brandy Hart May 18th 29 West Western Ave.Find Obituaries. View All. John Curtsinger April 17th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Larry Fulkerson April 14th 215 North Walnut Ave. Upton. Dorethea Johnston April 8th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Clara Greer April 5th 2098 Leitchfield Rd.Read the obituary of Joan M. Evans (1945 - 2022) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on May 20, 2024. Elzie Thomas "Tommy" Duncan, 78, of Eastview, passed away Saturday May 18, 2024 at his home in Eastview.The death of a family member or friend often comes with many unexpected responsibilities, and few are as daunting as writing an obituary. The first sentence or two of the obituary ...Virginia H. Swartz. October 14, 1931 - February 19, 2023. View Obituary & Service Information. Login. Print. The family of Virginia H. Swartz created this Life Tributes page to make it easy to share your memories.Funeral Services will be held Thursday May 9, 2024 1:00 pm at Manakee Funeral Home of Elizabethtown with Rev. Jason Hiles officiating. Burial will be held at the Bonnieville Memory Park. Visitation will be Wednesday May 8, 2024 10:00 am to 8:00 pm or Thursday May 9, 2024 9:00 am to 1:00 pm at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown.Read the obituary of Daymond Brashear (1930 - 2022) from Sonora, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.Service, on August 16, 2022 at 2:00 p.m., at Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, 2098 Leitchfield Rd, Elizabethtown, KY. Legacy invites you to offer condolences and share memories of June in the ...Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; Locations; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Cora Peters July 25th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Hazel Fulkerson July 24th 215 North Walnut Ave.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Upton from Jan. 31 to Feb. 14, 2022. Calvin Hill's passing on Saturday, January 15, 2022 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral ...Funeral Services will be held Monday June 12, 2023 11:00 am at Manakee Funeral Home in Sonora, KY with Bro. Tony Carson officiating. Burial will be held at the Sonora Cemetery. Visitation will be Sunday 4:00 pm to 8:00 pm or Monday 9:00 am to 11:00 am at the Manakee Funeral Home in Sonora.Read the obituary of Joan Brown (1937 - 2024) from Upton, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care. ... 1937 Passed from this world to be with her Lord and Savior Jesus Christ March 13, 2024 in her home in cave city Kentucky. Born in Clay county West Virginia to Emmett "Mac" McCarthy, and Dollie Dimples ...The funeral is at 2 p.m. Saturday, March 2, at Manakee Funeral Home in Sonora with the Rev. Randy Buckles officiating. Burial follows in Smith Cemetery in Munfordville.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Mar. 15, 2024. Henry Clinton Williams, 58, of Elizabethtown, KY, passed away Tuesday March 12, 2024 at Baptist Health ...5 days ago · Click or call (800) 729-8809. View Sonora obituaries on Legacy, the most timely and comprehensive collection of local obituaries for Sonora, Kentucky, updated regularly throughout the day with ...Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Elizabeth Burton August 31st 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Ermine Booker August 29th 215 North Walnut Ave.Read the obituary of John H. Muncy Sr. (1939 - 2023) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Melody Churchill July 22nd 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Barbara "Bobbie" Cave July 20th 29 West Western Ave.July 01, 2023 at 06:28 PM. BUY NOW. Blue Caribbean Bouquet was purchased for the family of Molly Renaye Parrish . June 30, 2023 at 01:14 PM. BUY NOW. Read the obituary of Molly Renaye Parrish (1996 - 2023) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Upton on Jan. 20, 2023. Amber Dawn Bell, 29, of Sonora, passed away Tuesday January 17, 2023 in Sonora. She was born in Elizabethtown to ...Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Aug. 12, 2023. Wayne Bradley, 60, of Elizabethtown, passed away Friday August 11, 2023 at his residence in Elizabethtown.It may sound morbid, but writing your own obituary and considering the way you want to be remembered by your friends and loved ones is an excellent way to get perspective on what y...Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Sandra Cartwright May 15th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Audrey Sparks May 13th 2098 Leitchfield Rd.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Sonora on Jun. 30, 2023. Cassandra M Jones, 34, of Elizabethtown, passed away Wednesday June 28, 2023 at her home. She was born in ...Alexander DuVal's passing on Sunday, May 21, 2023 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown in Elizabethtown, KY.According to the funeral home, the following services have beJohnny Franklin Hornback, Sr. 75, of Sonora, passed away Saturday August 19, 2023 at Sunrise Manor Nursing Home in Hodgenville. He was born in Sonora to Nova and Annie Butler Hornback. Johnny graduate form East Hardin High School, Class of... View Obituary & Service InformationFuneral Services will be held Thursday May 9, 2024 1:00 pm at Manakee Funeral Home of Elizabethtown with Rev. Jason Hiles officiating. Burial will be held at the Bonnieville Memory Park. Visitation will be Wednesday May 8, 2024 10:00 am to 8:00 pm or Thursday May 9, 2024 9:00 am to 1:00 pm at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown.The funeral is at 2 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 17, at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown with the Rev. Paul Frederick and the Rev. Anthony Clery officiating. Burial follows in Lebanon Junction City ...Read the obituary of John H. Muncy Sr. (1939 - 2023) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.Home; Obituaries; Flowers & Gifts; What We Do; Grief & Healing; Resources; Plan Ahead; Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. Manakee Funeral Home. Celebrate Life Every life deserves a special time of honoring and celebrating. Live well, plan ahead Planning ahead can make all the difference to ...Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on May 21, 2024. Margaret M Grimes, 96, of Cecilia, passed away Saturday May 18, 2024 at Signature Health in Elizabethtown.800 East Sixth Street, New Albany, IN 47150. Send Flowers. Funeral services provided by: Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown. 2098 Leitchfield Road, Elizabethtown, KY 42701. Call: (270) 769-6341.Funeral Services will be held Thursday April 4, 2024 2:00 pm at Manakee Funeral Home in Upton, KY. Burial will be held at the Stoney Point Church Cemetery. Burial will be held at the Stoney Point ...Oct 31, 2023 · Funeral Services will be held Friday November 3, 2023 at 2:00 pm at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown with Rev. Don Flanigan officiating. Burial will be held at the Elizabethtown City Cemetery.Show your support by sharing a personal message, story or meaningful photo or video. On behalf of the family, we encourage you share your personal experiences and preserve the memory of Debbie for future generations to come. Read the obituary of Debbie Kay Tarter (1962 - 2022) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to ...Home; Obituaries; Flowers & Gifts; What We Do; Grief & Healing; Resources; Plan Ahead; Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. Manakee Funeral Home. Celebrate Life Every life deserves a special time of honoring and celebrating. Live well, plan ahead Planning ahead can make all the difference to ...Obituary for Jennifer A. Mitchell . Jennifer Ann Beavers Mitchell of Union, Kentucky; beloved mother, daughter, sister, aunt, niece, cousin and dear friend to many, went to be with our Lord and Savior after unexpected health issues Wednesday, March 23, 2022. ... Funeral Services will be held Monday, March 28, 2022 at 1:00 pm at Glendale ...Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Upton on May 18, 2024. Robert F. Riggs, age 78, of Upton, passed away Friday May 17, 2024 at his residence in Upton. He was born in Upton ...Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Upton on May 18, 2024. Robert F. Riggs, age 78, of Upton, passed away Friday May 17, 2024 at his residence in Upton. He was born in Upton ...Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; Locations; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Hazel Fulkerson July 24th 215 North Walnut Ave. Upton. Melody Churchill July 22nd 2098 Leitchfield Rd.Funeral Services will be held Saturday November 18, 2023 6:00 pm at Manakee Funeral Home in Sonora, KY With Rev. Tommy House officiating with cremation to follow. Visitation will be Saturday 3:00 pm to 6:00 pm at the Manakee Funeral Home in Sonora. Condolences may be expressed on-line at www.manakeefuneralhome.comFuneral Services will be held Saturday March 30, 2024 11:00 am at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown, KY with Rev. Cecil Beauchamp officiating. Burial will be held at the Hardin Memorial Park. Visitation will be Friday March 29, 2024 5:00 pm to 8:00 pm or Saturday March 30, 2024 9:00 am to 11:00 am at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown.Plant Trees. Funeral services provided by: Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown. 2098 Leitchfield Road, Elizabethtown, KY 42701. Call: (270) 769-6341.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Jimmy Pellman May 1st 2098 ...Dec 19, 2023 · Kenneth Willyard Obituary. Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Dec. 19, 2023. Kenneth E. Willyard, 63, of Cecilia, passed away Monday December 18, 2023 at ...Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. About Us; Locations; ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Cora Peters July 25th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Hazel Fulkerson July 24th 215 North Walnut Ave.Home; Obituaries; Flowers & Gifts; What We Do; Grief & Healing; Resources; Plan Ahead; Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. Sonora: (270) 369-7444. Upton: (270) 369-7444. Manakee Funeral Home. Celebrate Life Every life deserves a special time of honoring and celebrating. Live well, plan ahead Planning ahead can make all the difference to ...Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Dec. 19, 2023. Kenneth E. Willyard, 63, of Cecilia, passed away Monday December 18, 2023 at Elizabethtown Nursing Home ...The funeral is at 11 a.m. Thursday, Nov. 16, at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown with Brother Mark Paulsen and the Rev. Ernie Bagley officiating. Burial follows in Clarkson Cemetery.Celebrate the life of Jimmy Pellman (1966-2024) from Eastview, KY. Read his obituary, share memories, and express condolences. Celebrate the life of Jimmy Pellman (1966-2024) from Eastview, KY. ... Funeral arrangement under the care of Manakee Funeral Home. Add a photo. View condolence Solidarity program. Authorize the original obituary. Follow ...It may sound morbid, but writing your own obituary and considering the way you want to be remembered by your friends and loved ones is an excellent way to get perspective on what y...Browse Upton local obituaries on Legacy.com. Find service information, send flowers, and leave memories and thoughts in the Guestbook for your loved one. ... Manakee Funeral Home - Upton.Find Obituaries. View All. Sandra Cartwright May 15th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Audrey Sparks May 13th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. James Abney May 12th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Timothy Peters May 7th 2098 Leitchfield Rd.Funeral Services will be held Wednesday January 19, 2022 1:00 pm at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown, KY With Rev. Mike McGrew officiating. Burial will be held at the Fairfield Church Cemetery. Visitation will be Tuesday 12:00 pm to 8:00 pm or Wednesday 9:00 am to 1:00 pm at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown.Danny Dillard's passing on Monday, February 13, 2023 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown in Elizabethtown, KY.Legacy invites you to offer condolences and share memoriesPublished by Manakee Funeral Home - Upton on Feb. 17, 2019. Don was born on March 19, 1953 and passed away on Saturday, February 16, 2019. Don was a resident of Sonora, Kentucky at the time of ...Sign up for Manakee Funeral Home's Obituary Notifications to receive an update every time a new obituary or life story is uploaded to our tribute page.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Mar. 7, 2024. Warren John Thieme, 64, of Big Clifty, passed away Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at his home in Big Clifty, KY.Visitation is from 5 to 8 p.m. Tuesday and continues from 9 to 11 a.m. Wednesday at the funeral home. Published by The News-Enterprise from Dec. 12 to Dec. 14, 2023. 34465541-95D0-45B0-BEEB ...Read the obituary of Tooter Highbaugh (1943 - 2022) from Elizabethtown, KY. Leave your condolences and send flowers to the family to show you care.This applies to all individuals, regardless of whether they intend to purchase funeral services or not. Are you the proud owner of Manakee Funeral Home. Sign up for your free business account! Manakee Funeral Home in Sonora KY details. Order Funeral Flowers, view contact info, obituaries, funeral service info, etc. Manakee Funeral Home - (270) 36.Bobby Lowell Bell, 80, of Elizabethtown, passed away on Sunday, August 6, 2023 at his home. He was born April 26, 1943 in Upton, Kentucky, to Pearl Helen (Wood) Bell and the late Claudie Bell. He was a 1961 graduate of Sonora High School... View Obituary & Service InformationFuneral Services will be held Thursday February 1, 2024 11:00 am at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown, KY with Rev. Eddie Paden officiating. Burial will be held at the New Hope Church Cemetery.Gary Wilson's passing on Friday, January 28, 2022 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown in Elizabethtown, KY.Legacy invites you to offer condolences and share memories ofKathy M Wargo. February 28, 1954 - June 12, 2022. View Obituary & Service Information. Login. Print. The family of Kathy M Wargo created this Life Tributes page to make it easy to share your memories.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Roy Riggs May 6th 2098 ...Find Obituaries. View All. John Curtsinger April 17th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Larry Fulkerson April 14th 215 North Walnut Ave. Upton. Dorethea Johnston April 8th 2098 Leitchfield Rd. Elizabethtown. Clara Greer April 5th 2098 Leitchfield Rd.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Sonora on Aug. 2, 2023. Michael Patrick Wayne, 50, of Sonora, passed away Sunday July 30, 2023. He was born in Louisville to Jasper and ...Funeral Services and burial will be held 2:30 pm at the Kentucky Veterans Cemetery Central in Radcliff, KY. Visitation will be Monday 11:00 am to 1:30 pm at the Manakee Funeral Home of Elizabethtown.Manakee Funeral Home Obituaries. No Manakee Funeral Home Obits are listed at this time but if you need to send memorial flowers or funeral flowers, you can do so by clicking this link. Reviews. Reviews regarding Manakee Funeral Home. No reviews have been added yet. Add Your Review.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown. 2098 Leitchfield Road, Elizabethtown, KY 42701. Call: (270) 769-6341. People and places connected with Kenneth. Elizabethtown, KY.Visitation will be Thursday April 4, 2024 4:00 pm to 8:00 pm or Friday, April 5, 2024 9:00 am to 11:00 am at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown. The family has requested pet-friendly plants and flowers, or donations to the American Cancer Society, or the Alzheimer's Association be made in memory of Don.Please enter your information to receive emails informing you of families we are currently serving.Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Apr. 20, 2021. Edna Heath's passing has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown, KY.Visitation will be 3:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. Friday, Feb 23, at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown, KY. Condolences may be expressed on-line at www.manakeefuneralhome.com. ... Obituary for Robert Shumate . Robert "Bob" Shumate, 74, of Elizabethtown, passed away Thursday February 15, 2024 at Baptist Health Hardin in Elizabethtown, KY.Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown, KY. Skip to content. Call Us. Elizabethtown: (270) 769-6341. ... Find Obituaries. Search. View All. Jimmy Pellman May 1st 2098 .... Visitation will be Saturday November 4, 2023 from 3:00 Funeral Services will be held Wednesday January 19, 2022 1 Funeral Services will be held Tuesday May 14, 2024 11:00 am at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown, KY with Rev. Robert Jewell officiating. Burial will be held at the Elizabethtown Memorial Gardens. Visitation will be Monday May 13, 2024 5:00 pm to 8:00 pm or Tuesday May 14, 2024 9:00 am to 11:00 am at the Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown. Stephen Dale Johnson, 71, of Elizabethtown, passed away W The funeral is at 1 p.m. Saturday, Jan. 13, at Manakee Funeral Home in Elizabethtown. Visitation is from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. Saturday at the funeral home. To plant trees in memory, please visit the ...Obituary published on Legacy.com by Manakee Funeral Home - Elizabethtown on Jun. 22, 2022. Michael Kienia's passing on Monday, June 20, 2022 has been publicly announced by Manakee Funeral Home ... Tipping at funerals is a normal custom. It is not nec...
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